Description
The new speed bumps on Northbrook Drive are too aggressive. The speed limit is 30 mph through that section (outside of school hours). The signage indicates these are 25mph bumps, however I have passed with three different cars and only feel like my property is safe from damage at a maximum of 19mph.
This is an excessive, imposing, and offensive traffic calming method, especially to neighbors who have to travel through this section multiple times per day. Speeds of 25-30 mph through these areas outside of school times are slow enough to give reasonably alert drivers and pedestrians ample time to respond to typical hazards.
Please modify these bumps so that the average, well-maintained car can navigate at the posted safe speed without damaging the driver's personal property.
28 Comments
johnhinnc (Guest)
You can safely go over the humps on Pamlico at 25 MPH. The ones on Northbrook are not legal.
Neal Harington (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
Here is a response I receivedd when I questioned the installing of these speed bumps.
I apologize in advance for the length of my response but I have a lot of issues to cover. Starting in 2003, the City of Raleigh began doing traffic calming evaluations on residential and collector classified streets based on the request of citizens along those streets. The evaluations covered 5 criteria: vehicle speed, volume of traffic, crash history, pedestrian generators and other factors. The “other factors” ended up being roadway geometry, whether the street had any hills or curves that could cause sight distance issues or influence the speed of vehicles. Each of these criterion earned a street points. It is a 100 point scale with 30 points being the minimum score to be included on the City’s project list. The higher a street scored, the higher it was placed on the list. Nothing happened with this list until 2006 when City Council authorized traffic calming projects on 3 streets. A fourth project was authorized in 2009. Also, in 2009, City Council adopted the Neighborhood Traffic Management Program (NTMP) which covers traffic calming evaluations and projects, speed limit reductions and multi-way stop sign installations. It also divided the traffic calming list into major and minor projects. In September of 2010 City Council approved the major and minor project lists and directed staff to do 2-3 major projects and 8-10 minor projects each year. Northbrook Drive was evaluated in 2007 and earned a score of 51.12 points. This score placed it 9th on the 2010 minor project list. That was high enough to be considered for traffic calming. The first step was for the properties along the street to support a project. A petition was sent out to be circulated along the street. The residents had 60 days to gather signatures from at least 75% of the properties listed and return the petition. That petition was returned and a public workshop was scheduled for the citizens along Northbrook who were shown what types of treatments were available. The citizens then decided what treatments they preferred and worked with staff to place them along the street. This became the preliminary design. The preliminary design was then placed on the City’s website and City staff went out to the street and marked the preliminary design on the street with white paint. The citizens were notified of the paint markings and given the link to the website and were given two weeks to make comments on the design. After the comment period, there was a second meeting with the citizens who were shown the comments and potential changes in the design. Then they approved or denied each proposed change and the result became the final design. The final design was presented to City Council. At that meeting, residents both for and against the project, were given the opportunity to speak. After seeing the design and hearing the statements from the citizens, City Council authorized staff to proceed. That’s how the project came into being.
Now for the humps themselves. You are correct in observing that these humps are different from the others placed in the City. The new standard which we have adopted is in line with what a majority of other jurisdictions have adopted nationwide. They are meant to go from gutter to gutter, go 12 feet along the roadway and go from ground level to 3” high at the crown before returning to ground level. There is a tolerance allowed of plus or minus ¼”. During the public workshops on Northbrook we were told that the speed humps on Pamlico were totally ineffective and did nothing to slow traffic. The humps in the Brentwood neighborhood are much wider (17’-18’)and a little higher (4+”) than the new standard.
We have heard from several citizens who felt the humps were too high and needed to be corrected. City staff went out and measured a couple of the humps on Shelley Road and found that they were indeed higher than the specifications allowed. We have notified the contractor and have asked them to re-measure each hump they had previously installed and tell us how they are going to bring the ones they find out of compliance back to within specifications. They have also adjusted their installation templates so that no future humps are installed too high. Once all the humps are brought within specification and the traffic has been given time to adjust, we will go out and do “after studies” on each of the streets to see what effect the humps have had on vehicle speed and volumes along each street.
I hope this has answered all your questions. If not, or if it has raised other questions, please feel free to ask.
Thank you
Tom
Tom Fiorello
Public Works Department
City of Raleigh
PO Box 590, Suite 400
Raleigh, NC 27602
Office:(919) 996-4066
johnhinnc (Guest)
The other flaw is that it appears only residents on NorthBrook were consulted on this. If there is traffic greater than 4000 per day then you can be sure less than .5 % are NorthBrook residents.
Neal Harington (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
Neal Harington (Guest)
gogoraleigh (Guest)
Thanks for posting Mr. Fiorello's comments. There are two problems with the City's method:
1) Only Northbrook Dr. residents were consulted. Streets are a public trust. The Northbrook residents don't own their street any more than I own my street. I live 3 short blocks from that street and need it to access the rest of the city almost half of the time. I live on another nearby thoroughfare that Northbrook residents routinely use, too. Therefore the City of Raleigh's discrete method is inaccurate for an effect that fades away from the focus.
2) No criteria for success is mentioned. Does the City want traffic mean to be a certain speed? Does it want the median speed to be a certain speed? If the City wants no traffic to exceed 20mph, then the posted 30mph speed limit is irrelevant. What upper limit speed is the hump that follows "adopted guidelines" setting? Is this appropriate for Northbrook Drive?
Additionally, there is no logical way that "speed humps on Pamlico were totally ineffective and did nothing to slow traffic" can be accurate. I witnessed several drivers traveling 40-50 mph on Pamlico before the hump was installed. I am absolutely certain that those incidents never occur since the hump was installed.
I have no problem with the elimination of fast traffic on Northbrook. However the current bumps, regardless of national fads, is inappropriately overbearing to achieve a reasonable goal for Raleigh.
Ernest knowles (Registered User)
johnhinnc (Guest)
Godkänd City of Raleigh 3 (Verified Official)
SL (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
Stängt City of Raleigh 3 (Verified Official)
Reopened NEAL HARRINGTON (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
NEAL HARRINGTON (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
MaryS (Guest)
from your letter above: "Northbrook Drive was evaluated in 2007 and earned a score of 51.12 points. This score placed it 9th on the 2010 minor project list. That was high enough to be considered for traffic calming. The first step was for the properties along the street to support a project. A petition was sent out to be circulated along the street. The residents had 60 days to gather signatures from at least 75% of the properties listed and return the petition. That petition was returned and a public workshop was scheduled for the citizens along Northbrook who were shown what types of treatments were available. The citizens then decided what treatments they preferred and worked with staff to place them along the street. This became the preliminary design."
END OF STORY!!!
johnhinnc (Guest)
NEAL HARRINGTON (Guest)
Robin G. (Guest)
NEAL HARRINGTON (Guest)
NEAL HARRINGTON (Guest)
dmccall (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
johnhinnc (Guest)
Speed Humps and Property Values (a google search)
http://www.oocities.org/nbumps/
http://www.waterfordvillage.org/traffic-wires/traffic-bumps.htm
http://wcobserver.com/2012/05/speed-bumps-do-the-research-then-do-something/
The city is ruining our property values.
Stängt City of Raleigh 3 (Verified Official)
This response is being posted to Raleigh SCF issues 416140 (Non-conforming Speed Humps) and 428068 (Speed Bumps too Aggressive), which are identical reports of the same issue related to the citizen initiated and city-installed traffic calming measures along Northbrook Drive, a project of the City’s Neighborhood Traffic Management Program (NTMP).
Speed compliance has long been an issue on Northbrook Drive, especially in the vicinity of Brooks Elementary School. Initial contact with the City’s Public Works department regarding Northbrook Drive came from the Raleigh Police Department, on behalf of Brooks Elementary administration, seeking a long term fix rather than a temporary solution to the Northbrook speeding problem. This inquiry took place in November 2005. When Northbrook Drive was subsequently evaluated for traffic calming measures, it earned a score of 51.12 points, well above the 30 point minimum required to be placed on the list for traffic calming initiatives. The high volume was 4120 vehicles per day and the high 85th% speed was 40.0 miles per hour. When the first NTMP project list was presented to the City Council in September 2010, Northbrook was ranked ninth on the minor project list. If it had been placed on the major project list this street would have ranked 20th and perhaps not have come up for consideration. However, Northbrook Drive remained on the minor project list, and residents were given the opportunity to provide input to staff as to a speeding and safety problem on this street that needed to be addressed. Residents did so by executing and submitting a petition of support for a project, and the initiative moved forward through the NTMP program.
The NTMP is a citizen driven program. At the first workshop, attendees approved a preliminary design consisting of seven (7) speed humps and the raised crosswalk at the school. That preliminary design was posted to the City website, marked in paint on the street, and design comments were solicited from residents along the street. At a second workshop the design comments were discussed and the preliminary design was reduced by consensus of the residents in attendance to three (3) speed humps and the raised crosswalk feature. This design concept was approved by the residents in attendance. The design was presented to the City Council for approval and installation.
Following construction and installation, it has been determined that subsurface pavement failure is taking place in the westbound lane of Northbrook Drive in the area of the speed hump closest to North Hills Drive. Staff is in the process of executing a contract Change Order to repair this area of pavement failure. Once approved the contractor will schedule a crew to perform the pavement and speed hump repair. While onsite and as part of the contract work, and in response to the comments posted to SeeClickFix and comments made to the City Council, staff will have the contractor and city inspectors measure and re-verify all speed hump installations on Northbrook Drive to confirm that heights are within the allowable design tolerances. Any speed humps found to be installed outside of tolerance will be adjusted to bring them within design tolerance.
We appreciate all of the input and comments on these two SeeClickFix issues. This remains a work in progress, which includes repair and potential remediation of the installed traffic calming features. The ongoing work is being tracked by our Public Works department and therefore we are closing both issues (416140 and 428068) in SeeClickFix.