It would be nice if that did not have to happen. Start left and center lanes just past Dutch Village or at Ulster savings. Better for traffic flow and safety. It is the gateway to Kingston from the Thruway. Now with the new CVS there will be even more traffic.

One time I even saw someone driving towards me going the WRONG WAY on Schwenk Drive because of the lack of proper lane markings!!!

He almost crashed into me!! It was late at night which didn't make it any better because all the trees block the overhead streetlights so you can't even see the road.

This is a very dangerous situation and it happens to me too. Near head on collisions are scary things and I am shocked it continues to happen...for years!
Part of the new 'traffic plan' includes widening the road to accomodate more lanes of traffic.

Widening Washington Avenue to 3 lanes would solve the problem but that is a much bigger job. If we start by painting the left and center lane and mark them with proper arrows, we will avoid an accident and move the traffic. Can we just start with that? Just need some paint and the city to move on it. With approval from DOT etc.

yet another intersection in shambles. who designed all of these anyway.?

Its actually pretty smoothed out now that they paved it this last time. It did seem to take a beating though because those potholes were huge. I am really glad they took care of it, it could be much worse.
As for the painting vs paving, I think it could be quite the money saver and supply a quick fix, if allowable/legal...

I think with the traffic volumes we are currently seeing, it would make sense to re-align all the lanes in that area to improve traffic flow.

The problem seems to be that motorists in that area don't have a sense of "traffic continuity", meaning that when they approach that intersection, drivers say, "What lane should I be in? What lane should I be in?" and everyone weaves into different positions because the demarcation of the "thru-lanes" and "turning lanes" are not up to snuff.

In addition, I believe that more prominent "Left Turn Only" signs and better traffic light phases of the "Left Turn Green Arrows" would also dramatically help enhance driver awareness in this location.

The entire section of Washington Ave, from the Traffic Circle to Hurley Ave. should have a decorative, raised center-median installed, (thus prohibiting dangerous left-turns and head-on collisions). Then the traffic moving straight or right should have precidence at the light, with a dedicated left-turn lane for traffic proceding left onto Schwenk Dr.

lived in Kingston for 3+ years and this intersection and light are a joke and the worst traffic problem in the city. Glad i'm not the only one. Fix the lanes leading up to the light. and fix the timing of the light itself...

Every morning cars are over double yellow line because cars in the center lane are blocking the left turn lane. Just needs to be fixed by the city on Kingston.

another picture of cars in opposing traffic, please call the Mayor about this.

I have a call in to NYS DOT Traffic and Safety Division to see what can be done with this intersection as far as re-alligning traffic patterns and flow, we can not just start moving lines around, but it is being investigated.

What ever you need to do, not safe and they need to be notified of the safety issue now that Kingston is aware. Thanks for looking into this.

i'm pretty sure the lanes are non-existant for about a 50' stretch. chaos! 1 lane heading west toward the thruway probably wouldn't be ideal, but would be an improvement over what is in place now....

the light itself needs to be reprogrammed or replaced as well. The timing is all wacky. there's a good 10 seconds between the left turn signals (for washington) and the regular green...

Besides the volume of traffic, the lengthy light on Washington Ave. is absurd, almost 3 minutes if you miss it, might be why folks are jumping over the yellow lines...probably have to fund another committee to "study" the area, haha....not funny really.

People go over the line because cars in the center lane who are going straight are blocking the left turn lane. If the left turn lane started back further it would be clear where people should be. Just some paint is all we need. Where is the mayor with his spray can?

Need a sign back by the railroad tracks saying right lane turns right and left lane goes straight or makes left at the light.

Left lane needs to be extended and marked left turn only. Center lane needs to be marked thru traffic. Right lane starts later and needs to be marked right turn only. Problem will be mostly solved. Is anybody even looking at this?

Our Elected officials will do something about it once the inevitable head-on collision occurs. Don't worry, I am sure it won't be long. Almost all of Washington Avenue's lights need to be re-timed too.

Please take note that your elected officials are very aware of this, we live here too and also avoid head on collisions from those who are too impatient to wait in their appropriate lanes. Instead many need to zoom over the double yellow lines in order to 'make the light' turning onto Schwenk Drive.
The DPW can't paint new lines at will, it needs to be addressed with the Dept. of Transportation.
I agree that a patrol car should sit in the lot of Ulster Savings and pull over the cars who cross the lines.

That way, no one gets anywhere. I am glad people are sensible enough to go for it. At Least an extra ten cars make it through that ridiculously long light because of this action. We will just keep waiting for that call back from the Transportation Department while traffic backs up to the next light at Sawkill.

this problem is nothing new. there's a good 75 foot stretch with no lanes painted at all...

ticket people who run stop signs and traffic lights (happens all the time in Kingston) or don't use blinkers. don't punish people for poor road design!

if elected officials are aware of a problem ...why don't they do something??? Don't just hand out excuses for your inaction!

The lines used to be correct until repainted a few years ago, There was continuity with the two seperate lanes all the way to the light. Now, as noted earlier there is a gap of no lines. There was a distinguishment between the lanes back to the Dutch village.

Well now that the city has been given constructive notice of the problem, I do believe thier liability is bumped up. Hopefully they will act sooner rather than later.

These lines are not a city of kingston issue, the road at this area is a State route. Bring it to the local permitting officer or nysdot region 8's attention.

That being true, then the City should make the application to the State, not a civilian.

well, according to hizzoner, we're gonna have to wait five years. the wait will probably last longer than this thread!

That is par for the course.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2010/08/15/news/doc4c676a176b3f4135618447.txt
this is 357K dollars and 5 years: this kind of government is old, entrenched, and out of touch with the lives of real people. This looks to them like a job well done, with nothing in the interim to ease the problem and no way at all to tell the thousands of people that use that gateway that there is a plan on the way (5 years out)...
I promise you that a competent, motivated city government would have that problem largely fixed in a manner of months. But there is a mindset and a comfort in the bureacracy of "this is how it's always been done" that is poisonous to the community.
This says there will be jobs, there will be money, but what happens in the mean time? "it's being fixed."
Those lights can be adjusted, the traffic markings can be refreshed, and things can get much much better very quickly.
See if anyone in government can speak intelligently on the problem, if anyone will walk the citizens through what the plan is, and what other plans have been considered, if any.
Anyone who has worked in a large organization knows how such organizations get old and arthritic. New, younger people are needed. More women.

Businesses are leaving Kingston on a regular basis. It is sad to watch what was once a great small city now becoming a high crime ghost town. What a legacy to leave.

that's funny, I see just the opposite, new businesses, restaurants, concert venues, young people, good energy. Are we talking about the same Kingston?

businesses leaving? that may be conventional wisdom, and one might call it down of the city for being less than it could be, but that is not true: small businesses are coming to Kingston: it is still quite a bargain, a place where a person can get started.
It could be better, and it is getting better, mightily.
Who is leaving? When? Why?
We need the details.

I have to agree with Frank's assessment. Nekos, after 109 years of business had to leave. Uptown Cigars left. While certain businesses are coming in, like low paying restaurants and Walgreens jobs, there is really no useful companies coming in. If you want details, just walk around uptown Kingston and take notice of all the empty store fronts, there are many of them.

young people: yes gangs in midtown, shootings and stabbings, fights at clubs uptown, more businesses and food establishments are closing than opening. Yes a few small niche places. Yes that is the place we are talking about.

Portobello Ristorante is closing. Burgevin Florist left uptown. Yes Nekos an institution, wow.

Right, I forgot about the florist. Portobello's is closing too? Wow, that stinks, I loved that place.

Portobello's was overpriced, fussy, and not very good. The cigar store is - well, a cigar store. Neko's was an institution, but out of step with the times. Things change, folks, and sometimes that's a good thing.

I fail to see how store fronts going out of business is a good thing. Regardless of your opinons, those businesses are no longer there, and there is nothing replacing them, that i can see....

This city does a poor job in welcoming business: we have the Uptown Twist, the Stockade Tavern, Vincenzos is a lovely restaurant, Suprenant Gallery, the LBQTQ community has been very helpful with their presence uptown, the farmers market is quite excellent, the restaurant down the street expanded...
We did lose that fine antique store on the corner, lovely gentlemen great collections... we have Beahive Kingston added to Walls street, although not my favorite, a mini mart will be added on Broadway.
View the town as what's happening on the Kingstoncorridor (kingstoncorridor.com) and kingstonhappenings.org, and the new aldermen we have (we need more of that kind of leadership, so make sure your ward is sending a good alderman to the common council) and the neighborhood watch group that is making a great difference in this town...
Then there is the redone waterfront and the whole Pike Plan renewal starting this fall...

And what about the Wall Street Jazz Festival, to be held September 3rd, BEAHIVE, and September 4th, corner of N.Front & Wall Streets! This their 7th year, going strong!
Let's do a better job of welcoming what does come to Uptown Kingston, 'stead of grousing about what leaves it(glass half full dept?)

I don't know how this became a discussion about Kingston business. It started with the lanes on Washington avenue. Way off topic.

@gerald-

LOL, I love Vincenzos, I am literally eating their pizza as I type. I guess I am arguing from more of a jobs standpoint. I guess you are correct that things are happening. But from a jobs standpoint, nothing you mentioned is helping anyone really...

good point Bruce, sorry...

November 6, Dance for Peace

Dance for Peace, all day dance, at what used to be BSP on wall street... (see them on facebook)... it's an all day dance fest with instruction and music (including Shorty King's Club House Band which is fabulous)
That will be November 6, all day. It was up on Albany Ave last year at the Episcopal Church, very successful, but more dance space was needed...

Exactly! This problem isn't just happening in Kingston-- it's endemic to pretty much all of New York State. The "big box" and "big pharmacy" stores keep coming because they make money no matter where they are located. The problem is that all those multi-billion dollar corporations couldn't care less about the infrastructure around their locations.

In other words, a "Home Depot" or a "CVS" would make money if it were built in the middle of a gravel pit, but a "Nekos Pharmacy" or "Uptown Cigars" would barely squeak by if there was a light-rail station, a taxi stand, a community college, and an international airport nearby!

Small business is the foundation of our economy. And yes, I am guilty, I have gone to the "big box" stores now and again myself. But I would much rather shop at some of the smaller stores if the roads/sidewalks/parking etc... were in better shape and were better maintained and kept up better.

New York State's smaller towns are literally crumbling around us, and this intersection at Washington/Schwenk/Hurley Ave. is a prime example. I went to Coleman H.S. in the early 90's, and the intersection was a nightmare even then! That was 20 years ago! And it's still EXACTLY the same! Kingston has more thru-traffic than ever before, yet all the old fuddy-duddies in the government tell us it's going to take 5 YEARS to put up some new traffic lights and paint some new lines! What a JOKE!

In other more fiscally responsible areas of the country, this intersection would be upgraded pretty much every 10-15 years to make it safer/more efficient for all parties involved. But no, this is The @#$% State, where increasing taxes, wild, power-drunk spending sprees, and receiving absolutely NO return on our tax dollars is business as usual.

Get a clue, NYS!!!! Use our tax dollars WISELY and EFFICIENTLY, and FIX THIS INTERSECTION WITHIN 2 YEARS!!!!!

Kingston has been the victim of bad government for years. We have three new aldermen whom you can see are active, involved, writing to constituents, keeping a blog, holding ward parties, helping with gardens, getting the funding for a comprehensive plan.
It's funny how insidious bad government can be, like having a low grade fever all the time, feeling punk, nothing seems to work well...
Change that. Drag your bodies to the common council meetings, to the neighborhood watch, kingstondigitalcorridor happier meetings, down to the waterfront, show up at UPAC, at Keegans, at Seven 21, at the Pajama Factory... and by all means, walk the Kingston Corridor... (kingstoncorridor.com) bike it, drive it, end to end: see what is happening, see what is changing, and when you do, please be sure to keep at least a small smile on your face to meet and greet. You will be rewarded with politeness and smiles right back at you.
and for sure: make sure you have an alderman that totally delights you, who communicates with you, keeps you informed.
Bad government will kill us all.
And then there are the schools: who gets to visit their schools? What regular news comes from an organization that taxes as big as the city itself? Who represents you?

@ Bruce Tuchman:
This MAIN issue was quite derailed more than three months ago, and This sounds like a great suggestion for the DPW / DOT to consider and for an Alderman to push.
Has there been any municipal Discussion whether the design of the striping can be or has been re-evaluated? Please update ON TOPIC.
lets make an honest attempt to close this issue and stay on topic.

@ Seriously?

Here! Here! Seconded. Co-signed!

Again, there was a County study for this and it's in plan, but 5 years off at $325000 or so... the improvements go so very very slowly. There are studies and applications for funding and approvals required at each funding level.
Dennis Doyle and Jennifer Schwarz-Berky are the people who head this work up at the County.

Thanks gerald, anyone interested in following these events, please contact the people listed below. Otherwise, I will be closing this until there is a further outcome.

You don't really need a study. You just have to drive to work every morning at 8:45 AM and see what goes on. Change the lanes for 3 months and see how it works. If it is worse than change it back. Save the money from the study.

can someone please reopen this?

The problem is not resolved and people are still commenting on it.

The fix is in the works. its expensive, and will take 5 years.
Jennifer Schwartz-Berky and Dennis Doyle at the Ulster County Planning board are heading it up.
this is a bigger fix that is in the works than fixing lines, because more than the lines need to be fixed.

@ Bruce, no, you cant just move lines. If the DPW took a guess at where the lines went without a plan from a licensed professional that the municipality approved, They would have to take liability for flaws in the design which could cause accidents. In the real world, they dont want to do this. And wont.

If we want to keep this open for 5 years, thats cool. I dont really mind, just seems that the FIX is in the works, and all that is left is to be patient with the bureaucracy.

If it will be fixed then close it but it's not fixed yet and don't know why it should take 5 years.

If the lanes will be studied ovet the next 5 years as someone said, which I believe is rediculous of our Government then some agency should extend the existing lines. Just define the left turn lane better. Today prople are changing lanes at the last minute not knowing where they should have been. Bozo City.

Enough with the 5 year studies, just fix it. Extend the lines past the chaos point. keep the left and center lanes constant, just start further back. It is a mess every morning and the new super drug store is not even open yet.

I agree. This is a maintenance issue and shouldn't be bundled with a huge capital investment and road design change. Actually, they have to paint the lanes from time to time: next time they paint them paint them right...
Maybe that's the way to take it to DPW:
1) when are you going to repaint those lanes
2) will you/can you extend them to correct a bit of a problem.
seeclickfixkingston@yahoogroups.com

The people aren't confused in the wrong lane, they are purposely speeding to the front of the right turn lane so they can then just quickly merge into the straight lane, rather than sitting in the back of the line for the straight lane. Why bother with simple patience?

Still chaos on a busy morning.

It is still a mess and not fixed. Nobody really wants to deal with it. Extending the lanes further back and not changing anything else is not as a big a deal and it would seam.

still a mess

Don't close this issue till it is fixed. It is a mess during the 9AM rush to work time and is dangerous as well.
Please fix it, look at it, assess it, just do it.
Thanks

The lanes are still crazy in the morning. People dont know what lane to be in and then they switch to either make the left of go straight. No signage and poor layout.

There are signs there that work is being done. Let's see what they do. I hope they fix it

the signs are gone and there is no work being done to washington ave. i also saw the signs so what happened???

The problem is as bad as ever. The picture shows the left turn lane being blocked by the cars in the center lane. Prior to the overhead signs nobody knows what lane to get into. The left lane and center lane need to be defined and properly marked further up (north) Washington Ave. Every morning there are people going over the double yello line to catch the left turn light.

The new black top pavement is great. Now if they can paint the lines correctly on Washington Ave. it would be great. Cars are still going into opposing traffic to get around the center lane into the left turn lane. Terrible layout of lanes.

people are still confused , there is only some traffic barrels out and no lines.

Lines repainted and adjusted after paving project for Washington Ave and Schwenk Drive.

Thanks, good job.