I more or less suggested to KEEP 9, 236, and Guideboard where they are. All northbound Rt9 traffic would turn onto 236. 236 would be one way to Guideboard. Both lanes of 236 could be used (re-mark the road lines though). Guideboard would be one way from 236 to Rt 9. Both lanes of Guideboard could be used (re-mark the road lines). Rt 9 south would be one-way from Guideboard to 236. Re-mark the road lines to 3 lanes. The left lane could turn onto 236 and 2 lanes continue south.

There would still be 2 traffic signals (Both on Guideboads. One at 236 and one at Rt9). The one on Rt 9 would allow Guideboard traffic to cross Rt9 while stopping Rt9 south traffic. The one at Guideboard would allow traffic from the east to cross 236 while stopping northbound traffic on 236. Since MOST left turns are eliminated at these 3 intersections, the signals and traffic would flow smoother.

The three major problems. South Rt9 who want to turn left onto Guideboard (continue south to 236 and turn left, then turn right towards Waterford). South on 236 who want to turn towards Waterford (turn right onto Guideboard, then left onto rt9 south, then left onto rt 236 north, then right towards Waterford). East on Guideboard to Rt 9 north (turn right onto Rt 9 south, turn left to 236 north, turn left Guideboard west, then Rt 9 north). With the signals and traffic flowing more efficiently, the extra time would be minimal for these three movements.

3 separate roundabouts are what's called for here. Without any traffic lights, traffic will flow much easier. The only issue would be entrances to local businesses.

Please, No round-abouts in Clifton Park. Drive up Route 9 to the new round-about @ 67 and see how bad it is.

Traffic lights are not always great, but round-abouts are very dangerous, that's why NJ stopped using them after their big push in the 70's to put them in.

In theory they work, but real life is much different than a computer model.

Thank You

Bill:

The situation at this intersection in Clifton Park is completely different from the situation at the roundabouts on Route 67 in Malta. Malta seems to be the only place in the Capital District where people still haven't gotten used to them after like 4 years!

At most of the other places around the Capital District, drivers have adjusted fairly well to new roundabouts, allowing traffic to flow nicely, whereas before people had to always wait at a traffic light and waste time and gas.

The issue in Malta is that people still drive 60 MPH around them instead of slowing down like they are designed for. Especially the people on Route 9 headed south from Saratoga.

When traffic lights were invented, people had to learn to adjust to them as well!

Statistics and real-world data (facts, not emotions) have shown that roundabouts REDUCE the number and severity of accidents, unlike your claim. This is due to improved vantage points, slower speeds, better signage, and easier queuing of vehicles entering and leaving the roundabouts.

Which would YOU rather have-- a small fender-bender at a roundabout, or a bone-crushing crash when someone doesn't stop for a traffic light at a traditional intersection?

And as far as your comment about New Jersey-- you are probably still remembering the OLDER designs from the 1970's, which are built nothing like the newer, safer ones being constructed today.

Perhaps if people would realize that they SHARE the road, things would go a little smoother for everybody.

You hit the nail on the head when you said the severity is reduced, that is true, but the number of accidents increases dramatically, it is just that people don't report them to avoid insurance spikes.

I have real world experience on this. As you pointed out, drivers can not get used to them.

I see accidents at the round-abouts every single day. most minor, but every single day. And the body shop I use has seen a huge increase in the number of repairs he does out of pocket as a direct result.

For him it is great for business, but I have seen drivers, who are not aware the circles are there, drive right over the tops of them, I mean straight through, over concrete, bushes, trees, whatever is in the way.

The problem is too many people packed into too tight a space. Instead of having 5 people per sq mile, we now have over 500 per sq mile. No road can handle this.

Urban sprawl is to blame. Traffic backups are just a way of life now and have been for years. I-87 is a parking lot 4 hours out of the day from Rt 20 to exit 9 and moving north every year.

Same with 787 and 90.

Traffic circles are not the answer. Ask Latham, they are planning on removing their's and putting in traffic lights.

Please, no traffic circles in 12065

Thanks

Bill

Bill, I don't think traffic circles as we know them are the answer for 9-236-Guideboard, I think the 3 roads that form this triangle of roads should stay, but the roads within this triangle should be one-way. Two lanes south on 9 from Guideboard to 236. Two lanes north on 236 from 9 to Guideboard. Two lanes west from 236 to 9. All 3 traffic signals would remain, however, all the signals would have fewer cycles. Currently, one of the cycles at 9 and Guideboard is for left turning vehicles. That cycle would be eliminated.

Many traffic circles in NJ were/are high-speed (50-60 MPH IN the circle) and have a large radius. In addition to that, many of the NJ circles were built so that traffic ENTERING the circle from the roads with the most traffic had the right-of-way.

I travel through the 9 & guideboard / grooms rd intersection several times a week. The traffic coming onto 236 from rt 9 does not cause the problems.

The traffic coming up from Waterford and the traffic coming up 236 from Mechanicville create the bottleneck, along with the plaza traffic exiting and entering from both sides of 236.

This was a bad spot for these 2 strip malls. Thankfully, most of the businesses have moved out of the Salty plaza, or the problem would be much worse.

I don't see any real solutions to this area due to it being a main junction for all the traffic in southern Saratoga county. Eliminating the 236 spur would overload the guideboard / grooms rd intersection and increasing the number of lanes won't solve the backup problems at the 236 / middletown intersection.

I think linking the rt 9 traffic lights with the 236 traffic lights to allow even alternating flow would help. When the 500 new homes go in on 236 the problem is only going to get worse, just like what is happening on 146 right now.

Urban sprawl is not a good thing. You have to remember this was all farm land in the 80's, so it was not a problem until the last 10 years with all the new tightly packed housing.

Clifton Park and Halfmoon put limits on the number of homes that could be built, but allowed exceptions if you paid 20k per extra house, which, when the house is 500k, what's another 20k. That's how we got to where we are.

When I moved to Clifton Park in 1992, I remember thinking, this will be Wolf Rd two in ten years. It took longer than I expected, but it has happened.