Many Saratoga Springs familys, in the past, have collected other peoples scraps and gone on to become very successful in our community.
Get a life that does not criticize others for doing something to make ends meet.

Michael

If people throw away cans, it's good someone takes them back.

I am not trying to be cruel. However, sometimes the issus is much greater. Mental Health or alcoholism. I know there is a shelter in town. We can't have bikes or skate boards on the sidewalk, why should we have shopping carts.

This annonomous person is totally off the topic - - it's not about keeping shopping carts off the street - - or bikes, skateboards, etc. for that matter.
(After all it's perfectly OK for our cops to ride their bikes on the sidewalks, isn't it?).
It's REALLY about the poor folks trying to survive in our tough society and lousy economy - - while too many provincials would prefer that we just keep them hidden so our town is picture perfect.
Of course some of our homeless are insane, are alchoholics - - and government, churches, etc. need to do more to help. But many are just people caught in a horrible situation.
Be careful - - it might be YOU next trying to make ends meet.

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Did any of you actually READ the posters issue? He or she isn't saying we should give them a free shopping cart and pick the cans for them -- NOR did I read any intended holier-than-thou, ewww the poor people sentiment. I just moved to Saratoga and the sarcastic, bitter tones here are sad. It looks like people are just itching for a fight. Yuck.

People removing cans from the trash is a long standing job for some. That being said, I agree that I don't want to see people wading through half eaten subs and other trash while I'm having lunch or a cup of coffee at an outside table. I wouldn't want my kids to do this at meal time and whether or not these people are "poor" makes no difference to me. It's kinda gross.

How to fix this problem? One way would be to provide recycling bins next to the trash. It would allow our recyclers to gather cans quickly and more easily. Although it wouldn't stop the problem it would mitigate the ewww factor. The other option would be to have cans directly in front of outdoor patios moved.

To say that we have shelter is valid. However, having lived in cities all my adult life, even the very best social services will not stop the can collectors. It just doesn't.

People come and pick can out of the dumpster at my apartment building. I make it clear to them I am aware of them and make sure they don't leave the dumpster open or throw any trash onto the parking lot or leave behind a shopping cart. As long as they are respectful of the property in this way, I think it is a very good thing to have someone fishing out things that we should be recycling. I've found everyone I've dealt with to also be very friendly and polite. In fact, if you compare them to half the drunks downtown at night, I say we need more of them.

Let them be "green" and pick the cans. Leave the Pickers alone, they serve a useful purpose

Maybe we can get some recycle bins, with locks on them. They did it in Boston. Donate the money back to the franklin community center or towards our own rec. centers. Great way to be green, keep the unsightly pickers off the street and put some money to good use.

We need more frozen yogurt "shoppies", more nail polish and manicure joints, and DEFINITELY more sub-par mediocre coffee shops.

Caroline Street is a cesspool of local denizens looking for "nothing good".
I wouldn't go too far with public image in Saratoga.
You need to chill the hell out.

I like that idea! What a win win, Instead of making someone feel bad about a problem you try to find a solution. You should run for office. Only one other person seemed to care about my feelings on the issue. All they wanted to do was beat me up for speaking my mind.

If it offends you - move.....

These guys stay to them selves and recycle what we through in the trash. The real concern is not that they are getting the cans out of the trash, but why so many put them into the trash to begin with. That is the real concern here, and that is what should be addressed.

PERFECT COMMENT

Dear Guest, If you don't like it move. What a great statement. Really address the problem. I guess no one feels sorry for the business owner trying to make an honest buck and employess people and help pay local taxes. They don't matter who cares about them. Maybe they should just sell there business and go on welfare. Lets bring sixty more homeless people on the streets with shopping carts. Maybe the Chamber of Commerce can promote the watching of people driving down our streets with shopping carts picking through our garbage. We can put that on the same brochure as our springs.

Perhaps if they picked from the cans in designer clothes and used a Prada bag instead of a cart it would be OK. The thought of "those" types of people walking in downtown Saratoga is enough to make me tint the windows of my Range Rover. I'm ashamed to live in the same county as the original poster.

Anthony, you are the one that should be ashamed. Thats the problem with this county is people like you. People would rather back the alcoholic or drug addict. Sure, give some money out of your pocket so they can get there next fix. You ever see the signs I will work for food. You know how many times me or my friends have tried to help the homeless and they don't want to work. Some people fall through the cracks and yes they should be helped. We have a shelter right in this town. How many times have any of you brought food to shelter or helped out. I say keep your mouth shut or do something about it.
I don't think we should have shopping carts going up and down the streets period.

Oh and another thing. All you brave people on here. Ask, the guy if he will mow your lawn. If he can push a cart I am sure he can push a lawn mower. See what he says. Otherwise, again keep your mouth shut.

So John you are implying that all individuals with shopping carts are drug addicts or alcoholics trading in cans for their next fix? Of course, you resort to deflecting your own ignorance and elitist views by asking me what I have done. Of course, reading your response, your close minded approach seems logical to you. Referring to "the homeless" and "they" don't want to work. Do you think all homeless people don't want to work? Do you think the family that I took in because the father lost his job and lost his house did not want to work? Think before you write and you won't sound like such a stuck up snob.

Open your eyes and see the real world, not just 12866.

I have set forth my opinions and I am done with this conversation. Have fun at the track next year.

Perhaps the residents in Saratoga need to realize there is a homeless population and in these times of economic struggle, people need help making ends meet. I am sure the person picking the cans out of the trash would rather be able to thrown their cans away like the ones concerned about the appearance.

I agree with the posts about putting out recycling bins. I don't like the locking them up, however. That only opens up the problem of having to replace the stolen ones or the broken locks. Instead, why not put them in specific locations that people know about -- the shelter, franklin community center come to mind. Perhaps there are others. Then, if people would rather donate their excess cans there rather than getting their nickels back, they can do it; and it becomes first come/first served as far as taking cans goes. That offers the folks who need the money a way to access some, and the accessing is done out of the vision of those who are so terribly offended. They can avoid the area, if it displeases them. Every city today has people going through garbage cans. This is nothing particularly special to Saratoga Springs. But what would be special would be the city working toward helping those people (at a very small cost) rather than sweeping them under the rug and hoping they will go away. I agree with Joe Taormina - "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

What image is presented? The the shoppers in Saratoga don't care about recycling? You're right. That is just terrible and needs to be fixed.

I am grateful that someone picks up the cans and returns them to the store.

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” I don't think everyone understands the issue.
For example, say a waiter looses a table because people don't want to watch a person driving down the street with a shopping cart picking through garbage. Is that fair. They are trying to work, trying to support a family.
I am not saying to hate the homeless, but we as a community could come up with solutions. Thats the point. Don't punish some waiter and don't punish the homeless. Lets figure it out. Thats all.
I have heard some good ideas. Keep them coming.
I know its an election year and maybe the politicians should be asked what can be done.

Jen, you wouldn't be so greatful if you personaly lost money because ot it. Green for Green so far the best comment.

As I mentioned earlier, I know three different people that pick cans out of our dumpster. I've talked to all of them. Let me tell you what I know about them, just to contribute some facts to the discussion:

One guy used to install drywall for almost 20 years (this is from memory -- I may be off). He fell of a ladder one day and seriously busted his leg. He had/has no health insurance and the leg did not heal properly, and no one will hire him anymore because he can't do the work. He lives with his wife who works a low-income job and he collects bottles to "make a contribution" and "do some work" as he put it.

The second guy, despite dressing like a "street-guy", is actually a retired state worker. He started collecting bottles for environmental reasons and said he just started to "enjoy it" -- frankly he struck me as kind of a "hippie"-type (I don't mean anything positive or negative by that description, it just seems to define his motivations).

The third guy I suspect is homeless (he didn't come out and say it). He is a Vietnam vet and while at times he seems quite lucid and interesting (he tells great stories), at others he seems very depressed and non-communicative. I suspect some mental illness there.

the idea of a drop spot is a good one, however i could see that leading to fights between the regulars as to who owns that spot.

Thanks for the information, Cody.

how about they put in recycle containers downtown, these then could be emptied somewhere out of sight and the homeless person who can benefit from the little money could pick them up there

The containers are a good idea, togaRN, but I suspect a much larger number of people will be scrambling to get the cans. Not everyone is willing to dig through the garbage cans for a nickle per can, but many would be willing to empty a neat container into their box. The people who have been doing our dirty work for years will lose their livelihood.

Oh, John, my heart just bleeds for the Saratoga driver whose sight line is dirtied by the person pushing a shopping cart down Broadway. How awful it must be to be distracted by the economically disadvantaged when trying to decide whether to go to Sperry's for that tasty foie gras or Chianti for the carpaccio. And that doesn't even take the entree decision into consideration. Oh, life is just unfair and complicated.

Right now (2:30 Wed., in front of Broadway Pizza a shopping cart person is sitting on the bench enjoying a Sicilian slice of pizza - well groomed and certainly well mannered. Give a person a can and they buy things.

Maybe take him home with you and adopt him. Does he have the cart? If he does he stole it. Well there goes your grocery prices going up now. Hopefully the waitress won't be joining him soon.

This is so funny after posting here yesterday... I just saw a new guy in our dumpster (we are next to a restaurant so we seem to be popular). After he literally climbed into the dumpster to collect a few bottles, he walked across the street into a maybe 4- or 5-year-old Toyota SUV and drove off! He has a nicer car than me!

@Cody - Maybe he needs the nickels to make the car payment. Stranger things have happened . . .

Maybe he is a PEF employee, Cody.

I realize it is unsightly however these people probably depend on the deposit money to buy food etc... Believe it or not there are poor and homeless in Saratoga! When my son was a baby 20 years ago I had to do the same thing to afford diapers for him.

geocachelinda Again you are not considering the other city of the coin. What about the waitress that might loose a table because society refuses to sit outside and watch that happen.
If you are going on a date with your better half. Do your really need to be dealing with society problems. Shouldn't there be a place safe from that. Don't you think thats why a lot of people come up here in the first place. Because of low crime. Does anyone understand the ecomomic impact that this can have on downtown.
I can picture it now the convention people are taking around a tour group that might want to pick Saratoga for a convention site. Right when the are walking out of there office on division st, the first thing they see is a shopping cart coming up division. Does this really make since. Do you people really not get it. She would we say to bad for all the business that invest there money downtown. We don't care one bit about you. But, then we complain at the job numbers.
Maybe if we go back to a welfare town with boarded up business you will be happy.
Thats one of the problems with this country no cares about the small business man. Everyone gives money to big business that don't pay taxes or to welfare people. Thats why we are loosing our middle class. We have better protection for those groups.

Hi all,

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Everyone should be grateful for the homeless population in Saratoga Springs. In 1990, after receiving preliminary results from the decennial census, City leaders determined they were one person short of crossing the 25,000 person threshold that would qualify Saratoga Springs as a "principal city." This desination would qualify the City for increased HUD monies through the CDBG program. Officials walked outside, found a homeless person and the City had an official population count of 25,001. Since that time the City has received over $5,000,000 in additional funding.

John,

As a former resident of two cities with much larger populations and more tourism, I can assure you that a person picking up cans will not steer a convention to another town. This happens in every metropolitan area. It is not a problem confined to upstate NY.

Do you really want a solution? Help to end the decreasing employment opportunities in our state? Fight to end the constant cuts to mental health services. Fight to ensure that our returning vets get the medical care, especially the mental health care, that they need and deserve. This is an issue of poverty and not a tourism issue.

The containers are a good idea. But lazy people will continue to throw their cans in the garbage. It happens at the track all of the time. There is no law against taking an item out of the garbage. I think you might have to learn to live with this one. The police can't even stop cars (or dont' bother to try to stop them) from running over my children as we cross the street with the right of way. I don't see them getting involved even if we had laws against it.

Jen, so well said. To the point, and written with perfect grammar and spelling.

Jen, so well said. To the point, and written with perfect grammar and spelling.

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John, unfortunately Saratoga Springs cannot hide its head under its wing and pretend this problem doesn't exist. I am not trying to say it is a good thing to see but that it is a fact and a real situation that comes with any city. I have lived in this area practically my whole life and have watched Saratoga grow over the years. Someone picking cans out of the trash is not a crime. It is someone struggling to survive. Should we have the police patrol the streets and give anyone who doesn't look like a tourist or a desirable inhabitant the "bum" rush? Just for the other side of the coin on my opinion... I volunteer at my church to provide food to local food pantries. I want to help the less fortunate, not make them invisible.

I do support more spending for mental health. Also, I wish the government would spend more on drug rehaps. Also, I have worked in soup kitchens.
The best solution is for me to quit my job and get government help with food stamps and Medicade and other social services.
Only one other person tried to understand my point of view. I think its a sad day in this country when you rather keep the homeless on the streets rather than help out the working man.
I will have the last laugh because soon all of you will be paying for my public assistance. i will sit home all day and just wait for my check. Thank you very much for helping me make up my mind.

Wow John, no one is trying to keep the homeless on the streets. I believe the majority of us are just acknowledging that there is a problem and Saratoga is not immune to it. Believe me you don't want to be on Welfare.. I was 20 years ago when my son was an infant and I had foodstamps and had my housing paid for but only got $50 a month to pay for anything non food related. That is why I pushed my baby around in a stroller picking up cans in Saratoga Springs! No one is against working people, maybe just elitist snobs who think homeless people should be invisible less they wreck someones meal or view while downtown.

Oh and by the way I got a job when he was still an infant and got off Welfare.. Now I help out with the food pantries. I do help the homeless.

Also, I will not be responding any further. I think my last statement speaks for its self. I will keep this post open for five more days and then close it. Please make all your comments by then.

@John - please note that issues can only be closed once they have been addressed or fixed offline. If another user wishes to continue this conversation, they can reopen the issue within 7 days of it being closed. If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know by emailing contact (at) seeclickfix (dot) com.

Perhaps you could supplement their income. No one ever said being hungry or poor was attractive.

Perhaps we could create camps outside of town and put all the poor people there. Of course we will need to have some of them in town to provide those services that the rest of us don't want to do. But we can transport back out to the camp when they aren't working for us. Goodness knows we don't want to have to look at them while we are trying to amuse ourselves. hmmmmm I think someone may have already tried this idea......

Great idea tberry! Maybe John thinks we should cart the ugly and/or fat people to the same out of site place?

No issue to fix

I want to leave open for a couple more days for comments.

Issue not closed.

how heartless can you be??? saratoga isn't that great a place3 for those less fournate

May be you should thank GOD it is not you or your loved ones.Those people does not hurt nobody.They are only trying to earn a few extra bucks the honest way .Try sleeping out in the rain and where your next meal is coming from then you can judge after you did it for your self.

I would much rather homeless or needy people return cans and bottles than begging people for change or holding up signs on busy street corners. Maybe the next time you see someone who has no other choice but to dig through the trash for a few cents you could offer to buy them lunch.

What I think is heartless is no one trying to help these people. I know there is a shelter in town. I know you can't stay there if you have a drinking or drug or mental health problem. So, is the problem bigger if so does anyone on here know how to help. It seems like everyone has said just let them stay on the street that is ok. Yes, I couldn't keep quite anymore.

I have offered to buy or lunch or gave my lunch. Also, I have sent money to the local shelter and sent food. When will someone on here address the problem and not ignor it.

John, if I had political backing, financial support and the resources available to actually do something about the situations of others than I would be all over it. Sadly I do not have any of that at my disposal. So the best I can do is offer something small to the individual in need. Not everyone has the means to act "globally" but the smallest of gestures to someone can mean a lot.

Issue irrelevant.

If you want them to stop going around with *SHOPPING carts, picking bottles and cans out of our various garbages so maybe they can have a few dollars to get by, maybe you can throw some cash their way. or maybe even invite them to live with you, feed them, and find them a job. problem solved.

or a warm jacket to have for the colder weather,or even gloves

People have posted ideas here, the most popular of which seems to be putting out specific bins for cans and bottles that can be taken from OR locked and then distributed another way. Whether or not people would actually use specified bins for "recycling" cans and bottles that have deposits on them is anyone's guess. But the consensus that I see looks like most people don't want them taken away -- and, frankly, there is no way TO take them away. They will end up in the trash if we don't put them in a separate container. At least, if they are in a separate container, it's not like people are going through trash to get them (assuming the people putting them there have any brains and/or consideration).

I don't know why that posted twice, I only clicked POST once. Sorry.

Starting to get cold out no solutions yet! Anyone know if a mental health hospital will take them in. I am sure they have medicade. Do they have to go if they don't want to? Whats the deal? Anyone know why they can't stay at the shelter. Maybe the police know. I am sure they must keep tabs on them. Anyone know the Mayor or any of our political leaders. Like to know there take on the this.

Really no solution to this one - people are allowed to live the way they choose here in the USA. Can't force them to go to a mental health facility if they are not a danger to themselves or others. Can't force them to live in a shelter either.

John, I'm sure you could contact the mayors office and ask them about it.. No harm in trying and perhaps you can get the answers you are seeking.

Still waiting for someone from the police department or Mayor's office to give their two cent on the matter. Case is not closed. There is something that can be done legaly if they refuse treatment. I belive jail. At least they would eat.

We all know that this a problem, in every city. But jail is not the answer. Of course, John has never broken any law. By the way, I have often wondered why people can steal shopping carts from markets, but not food. Those shopping carts are probably pretty expensive. caesar

I would assume the stores write off those carts as a loss and use them as "marketing" -- their names are being walked around town all day. What the stores do about it is not a city problem. The idea of putting those people in jail is neither ethical nor viable. Some of these people do have mental problems and probably would not have chosen to live on the streets given an alternative. But, long ago, we closed the mental institutions and turned them out. So, unless they act out very destructively or violently, they would not be taken in by whatever institution is left. If we cannot provide for their well being in a proper setting (mental institution) then why ever would one think that jail would be viable for them? They aren't all wheeling carts, so they haven't all broken the law. And if the markets aren't pressing charges, the ones who are wheeling cars haven't officially broken the law either. Although we have lost a lot of our civil liberties over the past ten years, the last time I checked, we still have the right to lead somewhat alternative lifestyles -- and, just because someone doesn't live the way you would like them to, there is no reason to put them in jail. That said, what else comes to mind other than recycling bins (locked or unlocked) to try to keep the bottles/cans out of the trash, so taking them would not be so "damaging" to some of our populace's psyche? (I gave one of the variations on the recycling bin suggestions awhile back -- is there someone else with any other thoughts? If not, how do we get the city to think about and/or place recycling bins near the trash cans, in an effort to separate the trash from the "treasure"?

I saw one of the shopping cart folks yesterday. He has been in town for years. He just brought bottles and cans to redeem at Price Chopper and then got FOOD to eat.

Very well put Sandy. I must comment that this is really a non-issue, kind of like I don't care to look at people that shave their head. There really is nothing to FIX here, at least nothing that the police or the city leaders are going to address. I believe John just wants to be the center of controversy, he really doesn't care one "iota" about these people he just doesn't want his city-scape dirtied up by them. Nuf said - if we all stop replying to this the issue will close.

This is not an issue for SeeClickFix. It is a matter for each person individually as to how they want to handle putting out their trash for disposal.

PD - No, it's about the trash and bottles on Broadway.

No the original complaint (see above) is that some people want something done about the less fortunate people with shopping carts picking the returnable deposit bottles from the garbage.

Guest - I know. I was just telling PD (below). I said it the way I did, because he/she seemed to think it was about the trash and bottle recycling at people's homes.