This incident last night involved a drunk driver that actually struck four different cars and the responding officers arrested the driver for driving while impaired once they arrived on the scene. Captain Craghead indicates he will ask the beat officers to monitor this area for speeding violations and ask the Traffic Unit to conduct a speed survey on Boylan Avenue near last night’s wreck scene.

Could the city consider replacing the traffic lights at Cabarrus and Lenoir streets with four-way stop signs? That worked on Woodburn Road in Cameron Park.

Residents are interested in changing the traffic lights to 4-way stops to slow the traffic down. It has apparently worked very well to have 4-way stops on Woodburn.

4-way stops only slows people down to a mere 25 only to keep rolling through the sign. A red light most assuredly makes people STOP. Stop signs don't. I will vote for 4-way stop signs only if you get people educated on the appropriate way to use them - in other words who goes first, second, third, and then fourt. Everybody wants to go first so I've seen a lot of near misses at Woodburn because 'everybody has to be first". People have a tendency to respect a red light more than a stop sign. Don't know what the answer is; please don't send them down through Dorothea - they think that's the way to avoid the red lights and use 1000 - 900 blocks as a speedway. Don't know what the answer is but I can't vote for 4-way stops because they'll just roll through those things and keep going.

I agree. My car was side-swiped on S Boylan in the 600 block last year and someone hit a telephone pole on the corner earlier this year. There's also a steady stream of speeding motorcyclists going by at a volume loud enough to make me feel like I live on an airport runway.

Can we please get some speed humps here? I understand that Boylan has become a major Hillsborough-Western cut-through and connection to S Saunders, but it's also a residential neighborhood. Drivers need to be reminded of that.

In response to Linda, yes people tend to stop for red lights. For green or yellow lights on Boylan Avenue, however, they tend to speed up so they won't have to stop for those red lights. When you know there is no way to "make the light" (i.e., you always have to stop), there is not much use in speeding up. How about a 4-way stop with 4 blinking red lights....

Still don't agree, John; won't vote for it. They don't even stop for the signs on Cabarrus coming down through to Dorothea. Nope, won't do ti.

I agree with the speed bumps over the 4-way stops - speed bumps can kill a front end faster than you think and if the speeders have to repair front ends maybe they'll stop or go another way.

I will refer the issue to the Public Works Department to consider traffic calming mechanisms. I have to warn you, though, the wish list is mighty long and the funding is mighty short for traffic calming right now. I will also ask them to consider whether a 4-way stop is worth pursuing to solve the problem or not.

As a parent who frequently walks with young children across Boylan (and who wants them one day to be able to cross safely alone), I would like the lights and walk signs to remain.

People tend to roll right through four-way stops.

Please, simply enforce the speed limit better.

My concern with replacing the traffic light with a stop sign is pedestrian safety and right of way. We cross Boylan on foot frequently. A red light gives pedestrians a chance to cross. Stop signs do not guarantee a safe crossing.

For what it is worth, I think our children are in more danger of being hit by speeding cars than by someone who does not completely stop for the stop signs. To the extent that is a concern -- and I am not saying it isn't -- I think the same concern holds for the red lights. People approaching to go right-on-red roll through the light (at least through the crosswalk) all the time -- even during the hours when right-on-red is prohibited. I am open to any measures that make our street safer, quieter, and more liveable.

Our children are in more danger from not seeing stop signs on the side of the road rather than in front of them.

John<

I am also for making streets safer as I park directly across the street from my house and have to cross my street every day to get to my car. We don't have stop lights on our street and people use it to avoid the lights on South Boylan. 4-way stop signs are less threatening to those who just want to fly through as, if I'm not mistaken, they hold less penalty than stop lights if a person runs them. Most people DO have a tendency to stop for red lights more so than stop signs. It's just a fact. I will NOT vote for 4-way stop signs. I just won't do it. And 2 other posts other than mine also disagree with you. Stop lights help people cross streets moreso than signs. Good luck, though.

I live in the neighborhood and agree that people often drive WAY too fast, not only on Boylan but also on Cabarrus and Dorothea in particular. I don't know why there aren't stop signs on every corner.

Another person wants this fixed,

Perhaps more importantly the speed limit should be lowered on the interior neighborhood streets. The limit on west cabarrus is still 35, a hold over from when it was a oneway street with less parking.

I live near the corner of Dorothea and S. Boylan. I suggest traffic circles at the streets currently with lights or proposed lights or 4-way stops.

With proper street markings the circles can be the relatively inexpensive rubber post type that trucks can go over to make turns. They are used widely in Europe but haven't been tried in Raleigh yet.

Traffic circles have a much better calming effect than either lights or stop signs and thus are more likely to create a safer environment.

The significant problem with 4-way stops is that everyone accelerates out of them creating noticeable pollution. Worse yet, speeders accelerate quickly and make lots of noise. None of these "solutions" will have any impact on drunks.

This issue comes up every year or so. We got on the list many years ago, so maybe we have moved up near the front. If funding is the main problem then possibly the Boylan Heights Association could contribute.

Speeding on S. Boylan Ave is a problem. One week ago tomorrow at 1:15 am a driver heading south on S. Boylan in an SUV hit a parked Jeep, lost his front right wheel, went airborne, landed on a Honda in front of the Jeep, hit a third car parked in front of the Honda and pushed the third car at least 20 feet, then landed on its side in the middle of S. Boylan Ave. Speed was clearly a factor, as was intoxication. Four cars were totaled while most slept. People with children should be concerned. People with cars should be concerned. Pedestrians should be concerned. John is right.

I live on S. Boylan and have also had 2 cars hit will parked on the west side of S. Boylan. Cars go extremely fast downhill, and cut the curve towards the stoplight at Lenoir. However, I also think traffic coming in the other direction, from Western Blvd towards Hillsborough Street also goes way to fast. Living on the street it sometimes sounds like a race track. The speed limit is 25 mph, but most traffic goes faster than that. It's a serious safety issue and a major annoyance. I have never seen anyone get a traffic ticket.

Discussed the issue with my husband last night. He is in agreement with Joseph. Traffic circles could possibly slow traffic on South Boylan just as well, but my concern is still for those with small chidlren who need to cross - where is the actual stopping.

I second the comment that I have never seen a speeding ticket issued on Boylan. I think speed humps would be an ideal solution here, although I am not sure of he cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_hump

I remember a lot of neighborhoods in the DC area having these when I lived there to discourage people from using them as a cut-through. They go beyond just slowing people down to the point that people will avoid the route all together due to the annoyance.

I agree that traffic circles could cause a problem for pedestrians. I understand Joseph's concerns about pollution and noise when cars accelerate from stop signs. Hopefully someone who studies traffic issues for the city will have some solutions. Councilman Crowder once told me that one of their calming methods was narrowing streets -- presumably with median-like raised sides that would still allow for street parking in front of and behind them. I have seen these on some streets. He also told me, unfortunately, that we will not be allowed speed humps.

About a year and 1/2 ago we also had a four car pile up in front of our house in the 700 block. Again a drunk driver that took out a parked bus, motorcycle, and three cars. We had a motorcycle coming up from Western at about 55 mph just miss hitting a car last month - he laid down his bike but only after skidding for about 120 feet.

The turn from Western is designed to be taken at 35 to 45 mph. It really needs to be tightened up so you can't take it that fast. Rather than putting up 4 way stops or traffic circles. We should just ask the city to untime the lights - so you can't make it through all of them without stopping. Also I read a study once that said just removing the yellow lines slows cars down by 5 to 8 mph. These may be cheap and easy fixes that can be done ASAP.

We should ask the police to bring a five year history of accidents on South Boylan to our next neighborhood meeting. Cars hve been driving too fast for a long time.

The City of Raleigh has a Neighborhood Traffic Program to assist with issues like this. Information on this program is available at:http://www.raleighnc.gov/projects/content/PWksTrafficEng/Articles/NeighborhoodTrafficMan.html

I'm all for finding a solution. Since I'm not an urban planner or traffic engineer, I will leave it to the city experts before deciding what will work and what will not.

It looks like it will be about 5 weeks before the traffic engineering team can commence a study on South Boylan Avenue. There are 14 such requests pending studies right now. Thomas Fiorello in our office coordinates this program. You can contact him at thomas.fiorello@raleighnc.gov. It is on the list, and Thomas can give you updates as we get closer.

The traffic calming evaluation on South Boylan Avenue is completed. South Boylan was originally evaluated in 2005 and scored 31.19 points putting on the bottom of the list. This time the street scored 37.91 points which currently places it 84th overall and 40th on the major projects list. It will still be some time in the future before South Boylan comes up for consideration for traffic calming. If you have any questions regarding the Neighborhood Traffic Management Program, the scoring system or how traffic calming projects are funded and implemented, please feel free to contact Thomas Fiorello at 996-4066 or via email at thomas.fiorello@raleighnc.gov.

Just an update concerning 4-way stops....The traffic signals on Boylan at Lenoir and Cabarrus have been there for a long time. Staff could not locate any old records regarding why and when these intersections were signalized (may have been related to Project Enlightenment). Currently all traffic control devices installed on public right-of-way are regulated by the Federal Highway Administration’s “Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices” (MUTCD). This manual is fully adopted by the State and our City Council. The MUTCD gives specific warrants that must be met before an intersection should be considered for signalization. The traffic engineering staff has the capability to conduct signal studies reviewing these warrants however we have not studied this intersection within the last few years. We did study both intersections a while back and neither met the warrants at that time for signalization. Although a current study has not been conducted, I feel comfortably saying that current traffic conditions would probably not satisfy any of the warrants in the most recent MUTCD. Signals that are no longer warranted tend to occur in older neighborhoods where traffic patterns may have changed over a long period of time. That said, removal of an existing traffic signal that does not meet current warrants for signalization can be a contentious matter. Perceptions of unwarranted signalized intersections vary and safety is often sited as a reason for retaining the signal. When a traffic signal is removed, the MUTCD specifies steps for removal and proper traffic control devices (e.g. two-way and four-way stop controlled signs) to replace the signal.

If any of the community along Boylan Avenue would like to further explore the removal of these traffic signals, City staff can further assist with studies and can attend neighborhood meetings to provide policies and facts. City staff and Council usually like to see a consensus from the neighborhood before considering removing of an existing signal due to the contentious nature. If you have any additional questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact Jed Niffenegger at 996-4039 or via email at jed.niffenegger@raleighnc.gov.

As a resident of Boylan Heights, my opinion about the discussion around traffic signals vs. 4-way stops,etc., is that it isn't the main issue. The main issue is that speed limits are not enforced on the street, and since it's a main thoroughfare between Western Blvd to Hillsborough Street (unfortunately), there are a lot of cars that speed on S. Boylan Avenue. Having temporary signs to display speeds and more police giving tickets every once in a while would provide more of a useful solution than discussing traffic signals.

I definitely agree that better enforcement of the speed limit on South Boylan Avenue would be ideal. If there is some other way to complement that traffic-slowing effort that is safe and environmentally friendly, we should explore that too. Four-way stops may not be that complement.

I think this issue should be reopened and discussed more thoroughly.

Frank Haynes makes an excellent point. There exists an immediate solution to the problem: enforcing posted speed limits and signal lights. Let's encourage the police to patrol/lie in wait/set up speed displays/whatever it takes to give the neighborhood a really bad reputation as a cut-through.

I've also seen neighborhoods like Cameron Park and Oakwood pitch in on signs to remind drivers they're in a residential neighborhood with tons of kids and pets. I've been tempted to post signs myself at alleyway entrances/exits now that I have two little bike-riders.

- Lea

I will contribute for signs. A few years ago residents along Glenwood just past Five Points did something similar w.r.t. signs about speeding.

definitely a problem with commuters using this road