As long as I can remember, this has always been a problem. Its embedded in the New York State mentality that cars have the right of way. People should have the right of way. If one walks across Clinton Ave. toward the plaza, it will lead you right onto the road. A few lawsuits should get their attention.

Uptown Mother,This has been a real problem over the years, even for the older seniors. On the ARRON side of their property I would like to see railing put up....it would really help to hold on to them while carrying packages, most of the people have to stop half way up the hill. As for the other side of Westbrook Lane they could also put railing up for those who are using bikes. As for the bottom of Clinton Ave heading to Walgreens, did you ever notice during the weather months having snow storms.....we have people crossing the tracks, in order to get to Walgreens.The foot of Clinton Ave, I have never seen any sidewalks....yet everyone who dares, will walk in the road even when the cars are at the stop light.......REALLY CRAZY AREA !

There is a problem at both entrances to the plaza. The owners should address the issue as it can be hazardous even for the most safety conscious among us. The foot traffic is evident all throughout the year so the need certainly justifies the expenditure. Either spend it wisely now, or spend it on lawyers & doctors later. A flat top speed bump at the entrance by Walgreens between the RR tracks and the landscaped area in the service road would be a start. Then possibly another one down on the Hannaford side, although not really sure where the best location for that might be. A flat top will act both as a speed deturrent and a deignated place to walk through the roadway.

I think you are dead on: here is some information. I hope this will help you follow through. Then post your actions and others will follow your lead.

I've added a link to show the Kingston Corridor on a Ward Map of Kingston...
http://kingstoncorridor.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/adding-a-corridorward-map-view/

The area is in Ward 2, the alderman is Tom Hoffay,
his email is ward2@ci.kingston.ny.us
His address is Second Ward
Thomas Hoffay
(845)331-8317
160 Tremper

Perhaps Mr Hoffay will contact the owners on behalf of the citizens. Perhaps he will tell the citizens how to get in touch with the owners, a very important business in his ward. Perhaps your alderman will do something. Perhaps the alderman at large, J Noble will do something.

This video was posted on another comment having to do with the entrance to the plaza. Its a snapshot of what you can expect trying to walk in the plaza near Walgreens.

Briliant: it's even worse, far worse indeed, than the entrance on the other side off of Clinton! Amazing...
thank you!

if you are concerned about your safety, don't walk in the road, take the bus to the plaza

kev50hum:

That doesn't sound helpful or sympathetic. It sounds to me like "hey, that's really not a problem: just take the bus". That would be $2, round trip, the cost, the schedule.
I could be wrong. You might really be suggesting that until the problem is fixed, here's a solution you might consider.

I agree. This kind of comment is not helpful at all. It is New York State law that cars yield to pedestrians. Maybe we should have a police officer stationed there and ticket every driver who fails to yield? See? This comment does not solve the problem, it only angers people. Sooooo, please give some constructive comments. Thanks.

Yes, amazing: it IS a NY State Law! And I notice that on someplaces on the Corridor, the city has actually places signs at the crosswalks informing the drivers. And the cross walks on many places are now cross hatched!
And there are places where they are woefully lacking: the Ward 4 stretch of Broadway and by the library, and of course, the whole passageway to the Plaza.
Good work! "Go, pedestrians!" takes on a better meaning than "Flee! the light is changing! A car is turning on red! Careful, is that guy gonna stop before he comes right up to my shoes?"

Kev50hum: I really hope you meant that as a temporary solution, and not as a "shoulder shrug" and a quick "who cares" under your breath. First of all, if someone wants to walk to the plaza THEY CAN...they don't have to take a bus, and should never be forced to have that option taken away from them due to other's inabilities to follow traffic laws or have basic decency toward pedestrians. Many people do not have access to transportation, and in cases such as my own, the walk to the bus stop is just as laborious as walking the entire way. I have a young son, who is almost always with me when walking to and from the plaza. On several occasions, we have had very close calls, and by doing nothing more than carefully crossing the street. Pedestrians are also a good percentage of the plaza's patrons, and as such, it is not too much to ask for some peace of mind in return. Please do not make comments that are negative and possibly unsettling to the people who have posted here. As the saying goes "If you don't have something nice to say"...

There should be ample warning when trains come through
especially since people cross over tracks at all points.

I believe Herzog's owns the entire Kingston Plaza, so I would assume it would be their responsibility to take care of the terrible traffic vs. pedestrian situation. Maybe Mr. Hoffay could contact Herzog's to address this important issue for the citizens of Kingston. I would gladly do the calling myself, but I sincerely doubt that I would be taken as seriously as an alderman!

The owner of Kingston Plaza has been notified and pointed to this email, and a reply is pending. More information will be posted about that contact.
Might I suggest that uptown mother send a note to Hoffay? You have the direct experience of what you are writing about and that's a very strong position to come from.
We can post our results and what the people in authority say here as needed, hopefully with some success, and then we can thank them and congratulate everyone all around. Or turn up the heat another notch.
You can see the ward map and the list of alderman names and contact information here:
http://kingstoncorridor.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/adding-a-corridorward-map-view/

Citizen K, did you ever get the reply that was pending?

Thanks. Yes. Brad@herzogs.com was contacted twice, and replied that he was unable to improve the situation. I didn't push beyond that.

That was the response? Simple and without explanation...that he was unable to resolve the situation? Honestly it does not sound to me that the issue was taken seriously at all. Winter weather is coming which makes the situation worse. By no means does that mean that there are not those who still walk to and from the plaza despite the weather conditions. I hate to sound crass but it would be a shame if someone gets seriously injured or dies because he is unable to resolve the situation. It seems from those I have spoken with that business is already affected by this, would resolving that not be a motivating factor as well?

@Uptown Mother & everyone
The intersection from Clinton Ave. into the plaza is on a public road. Has anyone gotten any further on the request of better signage for crosswalks here for safety? Has there been any updates in general about this?

@Gerald,
Is Brad@herzogs.com showing lack of interest, or lack of $? I think his motivations can be worked on from either angle. We may be able to get a little further with this to help out.

@Jm,
Good Points. It is really unfortunate that a private businessman who owns a lot this size doesnt have money to invest in improving it, or want to. Its also really sad that meeting the DOT and State requirements, and not exceeding them to make everyone happy, is his current resolution/position.

IF we find that he is not meeting safety requirements/law set forth by the state, I think we have good cause to keep pushing for the resolution. But until then, there is no motivation/ leverage to help him decide to make things better for pedestrians.

But since the owner is standing firm, and is legally not obligated to do more, without the city offering up money to help him improve his lot, (which is doubtful due to tight budgets) And without anyone willing to volunteer the money required to make this location safer for pedestrians, we are at a firm stalemate.

The best we can do, is to understand that the owners do not wish to ease pedestrian access, and those who shop there, can let that affect their decision about where to shop. We can assume they understand that this hurts business by discouraging pedestrians from shopping there.

Please everyone be safe while trying to walk there. if it takes ten minutes more, and you have to walk a block further, because the block you are trying to cross is too busy, please walk that extra block. This is a bad spot, and will most probably continue to be for a while. If you are personally affected by this, please contact Brad@herzogs.com and let him know how this affects you. hopefully if he gets a better idea of what is happening, he may change his mind in the future.

Lets keep going in this positive angle, and see how far we can get.

Yes, sorry, I didin't push.
I think an open letter to the Kingston Plaza sent to the Freeman and especially the Kingston Times might bring some more attention. There was the improvement off of Schwenk drive, but there is no way to cross to the drug store, or Herzog's for that matter.
If you will send me your email address I will forward a copy of the correspondence between me and Brad@herzogs.com. I'd rather not post the entire string.
Yes, we need toi try again.
gberke@gmail.com

the best way to resolve this issue is the next time the plaza owners propose an amendment to the site plan. When that happens, you require pedestrian connections as part of the site plan approval.

@ Anon:
I believe that would be illegal.
You cant force a business owner into expensive repairs because pedestrian traffic is complaining. Its like the town asking for a monetary bribe to allow the process to continue.
I dont think we want to do that to a business owner.

completely legal. Site plan modifications are opportunities to require to preexisting site plans.

I believe for one month there was a yield to pedestrian post sign at the Main St and Clinton Ave crosswalk. It worked. Then the sign was gone. It was actually placed in the parking lot of the corner business on Clinton ave and Westbrook lane. The post sign looked broken, and was never replaced. So drivers are continuing their regular routine; speeding and not paying attention or just not caring. I walk there everyday to catch the bus and sometimes with my children. I just don't think I have to stand there and wait for 6-7 cars to pass while I'm in between the crosswalk lines. I think the post should be replaced or a police officer should be there to help the people or observe so this issue can be resolved. Whatever happened to police officers helping the citizens of their community? I know there has been a lot of crime happening recently and I am thankful for the police officers and detectives who work hard at trying to solve these crimes. I just want to know what they plan to do when a person gets hit with a car when this issue could be resolved? I have seen drivers on cellphones while trying to cross. In mid cross, I have to stop and wait for the on-coming cars to pass because they are in such a hurry to get to the stop sign at Westbrook Lane. What is it going to take, someone to get injured or seriously injured to resolve this issue?

I think this is a great discussion.

Personally, I think the city needs to invest in a whole bunch of pedestrian crosswalk signs (the kind of signs that sit in the middle of the road). They need to be replaced often because they often get hit - but the cost is worthwhile. The overall cost is not that high.

We need to collectively think about cost effective solutions. The idea of putting policeman there (expect on special occasionas with particularly high traffic) is too expensive. This is not the day and age for increasing the city budget. But that doesn't mean that we can't come up with a cheap solution.

The Jordan's (who own the Plaza) have been responsive to fioxes that are low cost - so they can help as well. Let's all think about cost effective solutions.

I'm glad to see this still being discussed. Here is a repost of a video from July 2010

@vadhopper: busy day for you. Nice to read your comments and know you're out there.
I mentioned Complete Streets policy, and Kris Wilson at Cornel Cooperative, putting in the groundwork for these kinds of improvements

I agree with Gerald. Complete Streets are the way to go.

Honestly, I believe they're the future of Kingston along with the trolley system being rebuilt.

This issue may be partially addressed with the grid proposal included in the I-587 and Albany Ave intersection.

http://www.co.ulster.ny.us/planning/i587.html

I am keeping the issue open (I have closed many others) since it is important - and this has been the healthiest of discussions. Let's keep trying to figure out how to implement Complete Streets cost effectively. Specific programs needs support to move forward. Can anyone suggest where public pressue will help?

Would it be at all helpful if someone tallied how many pedestrians were using the egresses on foot or on bicycle (both to and from)? The last time I brought my daughter down her stroller was almost hit by an sub leaving the professional complex, as the woman driving was "blinded" by the setting sun. Her passenger switched positions with her she was so shaken by the occurrence. Needless to say I was shaken as well and would hate to see an accident occur before a safer solution is implemented.

Thank you for keeping this open. Personally I feel attention to this matter would benefit uptown Kingston and would love to see it resolved. With the nice weather I feel it is such a shame to be wary of a simple walk to the store.

coming to Kingston: http://www.kingston-ny.gov/content/120/2336/2344/default.aspx
Streets are for people and bikes and buggies too...

this issue was reported 5 years ago nothing has been done about it. instead the area is still unsafe for pedestrian foot-traffic. what would it take to set some movement on this concern?

I do disagree with uptown resident - their have been repairs, and there are ongoing improvements. I applaud the Jordan's for the improvements made. I think they can continue to improve the situation as the Plaza fills with tenants.

That said - it is still not super pedestrian friendly. The improvements that were suggested in the grid planning and I587 are coming up in the TIP list - that may provide help. Unlike some, I do not think the entire weight of improvements lie on the Jordans (the owners of the Plaza), but I do think they can do more - and should work with the public projects to maximize the effect of future dollars with the rail trails and other pedestrian improvement that are coming down the line.

Let's keep supporting the issue.

This is still a big problem. Hoping it gets more attention as the Plaza is in much better shape and they have been fixing things up. Create better pedestrian access!