Friends of East Rock Park conducted an internet survey asking whether a stop sign should be installed at this intersection. 87.01% of the 154 responses said yes and therefore we plan to advocate for installation of a stop sign here. Stay tuned...

- Justin Elicker

I agree with 99.99% of everything that Mr Elicker says and or thinks, but this is the one thing I disagree on ;-) I don't think that the nitty gritty of a stop sign should be determined with a survey or such a simple process--I think we should look at speeding data, accident data, and community complaints before we install traffic measures.

I'm personally against installing a stop sign here, because I think unneeded signage clutters roadways, and contributes to a lack of respect for road signs.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6530252

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18217318

Stop signs don't work well in New Haven. Adding additional stop signs seems counter-productive.

I would rather see signs that promote the area for pedestrian use, or a lowered speed limit, because most studies do show a strong relationship between posted speed & driving speed. (An even stronger relationship than design speed & driving speed, although obviously design speeds will slow down drivers too)

I now agree with Streever on this issue and on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of stop signs as a traffic calming measure in general.

Furthermore, drivers in New Haven have demonstrated an astonishing propensity to drive the posted speed limit regardless of the design speed, even to the point of losing control over their vehicles. I therefore now also agree that it is necessary that the city post recommended speeds based on road characteristics, just as they would post speed advisories to accompany traffic calming measures. This, I now believe, would be a more effective means of traffic calming—as argued by Mr. Streever in the above comment.

Brian:
Do you actually agree with me or are you being sarcastic? I'm having a hard time telling :)

If you disagree, I'd rather you posted what you actually think, instead of mocking my opinion. If you do agree, sorry for the misunderstanding.

And for everyone's benefit: this intersection is NOT where the recent accident occured. Something does need to be done at the other street, but I don't think a stop sign is going to help--the woman who hit the cyclist admits that she ruined her own car the week before her latest crash due to "driving like she's in Nascar". I'm not sure why Brian brings up the other intersection, because it's very different from this one--and the crash was caused by a woman driving through the EXISTING STOP SIGN ;-) (taking a right off of Orange and then driving in the oncoming traffic lane!)

Yea, I don't think additional stop signs will mitigate that type of behavior!

No, I actually agree with you. What changed my mind was reading the US Traffic Calming Manual, where it explicitly states that the vast majority of traffic engineers have concluded, based on a preponderance of evidence, that stop signs are NOT an effective means of traffic calming.

I now agree with emphasizing lower posted speed limits because the recent incident indicates to me that drivers will claim they didn't know what the safe speed was if you don't post an advisory speed. It's like the traffic calming equivalent to a disclaimer. A person can't sue the city for the damage to her oil pan when she went over a speed bump while driving like she was in NASCAR because the BUMP warning sign clearly indicated that she should slow to 20 mph or less.

Similarly, if a "winding road" warning sign, combined with an advisory speed plaque recommending speeds of 15 mph or less had been posted on English Drive, a person who loses control over her car would not be able to claim she didn't know what the speed limit was and get away with colliding head-on into oncoming traffic.

ahhh, perfect. Thanks a lot for clarifying Brian--it's hard to read tone in e-mail/seeclickfix.

That's exactly what I had read too--and it got me thinking about people who drive dangerously--they seem to be good at ignoring signs/speed limits/etc. People who think it's ok to "drive like Nascar" don't really care what type of laws there are or danger--

Hopefully there are less of them out there then I think :-/.

From now on I would go with:
SARCASTIC COMMENT ABOUT STREEVER
;-)

I disagree - stop signs can be effective. At the least, they indicate who has the right of way. Obviously it isn't an all or nothing issue, you need a lot of stuff besides just the stop signs to make an intersection safe. But don't throw them out entirely when they clearly have a purpose to them.

If 90% of the neighborhood wants one, put one in and try it (and use their desire for the sign as an excuse to do more stuff than just the sign, like posting a lower speed)

Thanks to lobbying by the Friends of East Rock Park and work by the Transportation, Traffic and Parking Dept, new crosswalks have been installed at this intersection! The Friends of East Rock Park will continue to lobby the city to install an additional stop sign at this location.

Stop signs are important at this intersection because of visibility problems. Cars approaching from the East (State St.) cannot adequately see around the bend. Particularly because there is a trail crossing here, it is critical that these cars stop. Just because vehicles do not adequately follow traffic indicators in New Haven does not mean we should have no traffic indicators. A stop sign is not a complete answer, but in tandem with enforcement and future change in road design, a stop sign will be effective.

Justin Elicker
www.friendsofeastrockpark.org

Justin,

I strongly disagree. Studies show you need yields, not binary traffic signalization!

a more viable solution is to lower the speed limit to 15 mph for the road here & post signs warning that the road is shared with pedestrians/cyclists

The issue is not if people stop their car or not, but if they are sharing the road properly. Don't build infrastructure to address a problem that doesn't exist--build it directly to the problem at hand.

This issue was recategorized from Uncategorized to Signs / Bus Shelters / Pavement Markings.

We are trying to delineate issues that are current and need the city's attention to resolve and as a result a number of historical issues are being closed. If your issue persists and needs to be addressed by the city please open as a new See Click Fix issue. Thank you.